Talking to Ben Rhodes, Obama's Deputy NSA, Author, Co-Host Pod Save the World

Two weeks ago, I had the enormous privilege of interviewing Ben Rhodes, co-host of

Crooked Media

’s Pod Save the World, along with Kamy Akhavan, Executive Director, USC Dornsife Center for the Political Future at USC, which hosts the podcast Let’s Find Common Ground. The talk was sponsored by the Democracy Group. It was a fantastic conversation that ranged from global democratic backsliding, to the future of NATO, Dems needing to engage with culture instead of just politics, and we need to capacious imagination to create the world we want to live in.

A couple things that struck me. MY COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS. I promise I’m not shouting at you.

Global Democratic Backsliding Has Already Happened
Rhodes argues that we're not witnessing democratic backsliding in progress—it's already occurred globally.

The International Order is Fundamentally Breaking Down
He predicts that within four years, institutions like NATO may exist on paper but won't function as they historically have.

America's Global Reputation Will Suffer Lasting DamageRhodes explains that Trump's second election signals to allies that this isn't an aberration—it's who America is. THIS IS WHO AMERICA IS, EVEN IF MOST OF US DON’T LIKE IT.

Necessity Will Drive Reimagining of American Systems
Rhodes sees the current disruption as potentially beneficial if managed correctly. Just as past crises led to rebuilding (New Deal after Depression, post WWII order), young people will need to "imagine a new US government and new international institutions" rather than trying to restore the old order. YES! WE NEED A BIGGER AND BETTER IMAGINATION TO CREATE THE WORLD THAT REFLECTS OUR VALUES. See my conversation with

Aviv Russ

, where we talk a lot about imagination.

Cultural Connection Must Precede Political Engagement
Drawing from his Cuba negotiations experience, Rhodes emphasizes that political conversations should follow human connection, not lead it. IN OTHER WORDS, BETTER HUMAN-ING. He criticizes Democrats for only engaging in political spaces rather than appearing in cultural venues (sports, comedy, lifestyle podcasts) where authentic relationships can develop before political discussion. TALKING ABOUT POLITICS WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT POLITICS.

Thank you to the Democracy Group, USC Capital Campus, Kami Akhavan, and of course Ben Rhodes. Thanks also to podcasters from the Democracy Group. Shout out to many of the folks I’ve talked to recently, particularly

Andra Watkins

Aviv Russ

Walter Rhein

and others I tried to tag and couldn’t.